Yes, you can crossgrade to AI CS3 from FH9, 10 or MX for $199 US.

However, when planning a switch, make sure you also include the price of the
ton of third party plug-ins you'll need to buy to get close the same
functionality as many FH features you may rely on. You'll need to fork out
wads of cash for features such as multiple pages, scale drawings, bending
line segments, joining multiple path segments, knife tool, perspective
drawing. I could go on.

If there are plug-ins and/or scripts that can fully duplicate the
functionality of FH's Find & Replace Graphics, I haven't found them.

Do your research before assuming you can easily jump to Illustrator.

Here are a few reasons I use FH instead of Illustrator:

-- Name all colors in document

-- Find & Replace color in document, page or selection

-- Find & Replace path shape

-- Multiple pages

-- Paste Inside

-- Interactive rounded corners on rectangles

-- Live shape primitives - polygons, stars, etc.

-- Live ellipse segments

-- Join selected path segments (requires concatonate plug-in)

-- Convert multiple points to curve, corner, retract handles, automatic
handles

-- Split paths at multiple subselected path segments

-- "Bend-o-matic" -- bend straight path segment by dragging with pointer

-- Custom ruler scales

-- Scale raster images numerically from original size

-- Easy handling of linked images, including extract image

-- Adjustable snap and pick distances set in preferences

-- New object default preference

-- Type on a closed path, upright top and bottom

-- Zoom view to 512,000 X

-- Tiled printing with specified overlap

Additions or corrections welcome.

Judy Arndt

If nothing of this can be done in Illustrator, who can use it at all????

I could probably add more to the list, based on this knowledge of what Illy
can not offer. Many things that I do in FH are never mentioned in manuals, but
are still possible and makes it a real "freehand" application. Far superior all
other illustration programs I have come across. And I am not talking of
plug-ins, but ease of operations....

> However, when planning a switch, make sure you also include the price of the
> ton of third party plug-ins you'll need to buy to get close the same
> functionality as many FH features you may rely on.

I rave as much as anyone about the ill-advised need to build dependency upon
third party add-ons in AI. However, it can also be argued that Illustrator
offsets some of that with other features which FreeHand has never had. Yes,
GF&R saves time in FH. On the other hand, AI's built-in macro facility
(Actions) saves huge amounts of time, too. FH has never had a macro utility.

Illustrator's (and the rest of the CS apps') support for Javascript is another
huge productivity advantage. And I'm not just talking about building Javascript
substitutes for FH features like joining multiple paths, reversing paths,
retracting handles, etc. I'm talking about the ability to create your own
features for your own specific needs. Just a few examples which I use:

A simple Javascript instantly creates a set of numerically serialized text
objects for such things as callouts in maps and tech illustrations, or for
serialized items like tickets.

Another script randomly fills a user-defined rectangular area with any number
of copies of any object.

Another randomly assigns defined swatches to any number of selected paths.

Another creates a halftone from a raster image in which each halftone dot is
an instance of a user-defined Symbol.

Another corrects the z-stacking order of selected objects, based upon their
vertical position on the page. (I use this for processing tabular text in CAD
imports.)

Okay, you don't want to build Javascripts. Point is, the more AI users do it,
the less likely you have to. AI Javascript is completely cross-platform. People
share them all the time, for free. So for me, this is a huge productivity
advantage which FH cannot match. I miss having GF&R when using AI, too. But
I've already become just as dependent upon AI's Javascript support and Actions.
Moreover, the JS advantage is compounded because the same thing is supported in
both InDesign and Acrobat.

> You'll need to fork out wads of cash for features such as multiple pages,
scale drawings,

And you'll find after doing so that even the most often-cited plug-ins for
those fall far short of the elegance of built-in features. CAD Tools' treatment
of custom scales looks to me like a bitmap overlay over the AI rulers. I don't
have the latest version, but in the version I have its performance is quite
poor.

On the other hand, FH's custom rulers compare rather weakly against those in
other programs, too. Just the other day, Judy, you answered someone needing to
set up a scale using microns as the UOM with a rationalization that FH "is not
a CAD program." Well, Canvas isn't either, but the kind of scale the
correspondent needed can be set up in seconds in Canvas.

Third party plug-ins for "multiple pages" are really nothing more than schemes
to use layers or page tiling as pretentions of multiple pages. Those who offer
them just don't get it. FH's innovative approach to multiple pages offers
illustration-centric advantages none of the AI plug-ins I've seen offer.

On the other hand, Adobe did in CS2 add a reasonable interface for managing an
array of same-size page tiles on AI's artboard. No, it does not even come close
to measuring up to FH's versatile page handling (and I tell Adobe that at every
opportunity). But again, when it comes to the bottom line of total
productivity, an advantage in one program can compensate for an advantage in
the other. For example, it's pretty dang handy to be able to be flipping
through a multi-page PDF in Acrobat, rightClick the page with the TouchUpObject
tool, select EditPage, and have that page open in Illustrator for editing. Make
the edits, select Save, and you are returned to the PDF in Acrobat.

> Do your research before assuming you can easily jump to Illustrator.

Always good advice.

> Name all colors in document
> Find & Replace color in document, page or selection

I haven't laid hands on it yet, but reading between the lines of the new color
handling in CS3, I suspect it may provide those and more. If not exactly those,
then other color handling features which FH does not have. I, for one, will
welcome the color schemes functionality.

Find & Replace path shape

> Paste Inside

I'm not sure if this has changed in CS3, but I suspect it may have. The
problem with AI's Clipping Masks is not functional, but interface. The
interface displays the edges of masked portions of whole clipping path group
when selected, and displays the whole contents' dimensions, and performs
alignments upon the whole contents' bounds, rather than those of the clipping
path. But I've see mention of ability to align points having been added to CS3,
and it seems logical to me that some of the Clipping Mask problems may have
been addressed as part of that. Again, we'll see.

Live shape primitives - polygons, stars, etc. [including rounded rectangles
and ellipse arcs]

Agreed. On the other hand, the ability to apply Convert To Shape as a live
effect to individual stroke or fill attributes in the Appearance Palette is a
somewhat offsetting advantage of AI.

> Join selected path segments (requires concatonate plug-in)

I built a pair of Javascripts for this, which work much like FH's Join
command, but which gives me the option of whether pre-existing outboard handles
are respected. I use it every day. Understand, this is NOT to make any excuse
for the inexcusably poor Join command in AI.

> Convert multiple points to curve, corner, retract handles, automatic handles

Judging by the screenshots of CS3, most, if not all, of that is now provided.
Yes, 20 years late, but today is what matters today.

> Split paths at multiple subselected path segments

Actually, you can do that in AI, but by different means. DirectSelect the
segments instead of the points. Cut, tap Delete, PasteInFront. For my own
purposes, I wanted it to work more like FH, so again, I wrote myself a pretty
simple Javascript to just break selected points.

> "Bend-o-matic" -- bend straight path segment by dragging with pointer

As you may recall, you're singing one of my favorite tunes there. On the
consolation side, though, selection behavior has been altered in CS3 (something
I really figured would be "holy ground", never to be improved). According to
what I read between the lines in Teri Petit's description, the tedium of having
to continually deselect when using AI's white pointer should be aleviated in
CS3.

> Easy handling of linked images, including extract image

Like multiple pages and Collect For Output, it should be built into AI. But
for those who may not know, it's not that big a deal to save the AI file as
PDF, have it automatically launch Acrobat, and then use Acrobat's Extract All
Images command.

> Adjustable snap and pick distances set in preferences

Has been added in CS3. Also settings for the display of points and handles.

> Tiled printing with specified overlap

You can do that in CS2. It's in the Print Dialog's Setup pane. Select Tile
Whole Pages, set the desired overlap, click Done. Turn on View>Show Page Tiling.

continues...

JET

continued...

> Additions or corrections welcome.

Additions, favoring FH:

Better Envelopes.

Object Inspector based interface scheme.
Illustrator's interface looks to be much improved in CS3 (and it's about
time), with properly dockable palettes, a toolbox that can be flipped to a
single column, and supposed contextual improvements to the ill-designed Control
Palette. I welcome those improvements, but I am convinced that Macromedia's
Inspector-based interface (now called Properties Palette) is simply a more
modern interface model, and one vastly more efficient for proficient users.

Better Color Mixer
AI's color mixer interface is cumbersome due to the fact that it affects
selected objects. Glass-half-full types can argue there are detail advantages,
but after several years of living in AI, I'm convinced FH's treatment is simply
better. This may be improved in CS3, but I doubt it, because the cutsey
overlapping fill/stroke icons are still there.

Object-Level Halftone settings.

Lens Effect.
AI has nothing like this, except for cumbersome workarounds.

Connector Lines.

Vastly Superior Text Objects
Neither AI nor InDesign match the no-nonsense versatility and efficiency of
FH's text frames. People who have labored for many years building maps only in
AI have no idea what they've been missing without FH's ability to set all
selected text objects to auto-expand with a single click.

More sensible Path Combine Feature Set.

Path Blend Uniform Spacing Not Affected By Path Shape.

I could go on.

Counterpoints, favoring AI:

Vastly better Brushes.
One quickly develops dependency upon AI's Pattern Brushes, Art Brushes, and
Scatter Brushes. They could be greatly improved with a few modest tweaks of
their user settings, but they still blow the doors off of FH's.

Define a Line by Length and Angle (built-in). Define a movement by Distance
and Direction.
I consider these deceptively subtle differences to be huge in importance.

Smart Guides
FH's Snap To Object pales miserably against this feature set. (Corel's is even
better than AI's). My main complaint about it is that it should be
document-specific, not a general prefs setting. But FH doesn't offer it. I have
it turned on almost always when working in AI.

General Affinity Toward PDF
This is huge, too. PDF is so essential these days, and it's nice to be able to
work as seamlessly and reliably with it as AI does.

Integration With Flash
I generally found using AICS and CS2 with Flash to be pretty much the same as
using FH with Flash. CS3 looks like it takes that interaction much farther, and
that will be significant to me.

Much Better 3D Feature.

Consistent On-Screen Color Display Between Apps
Color display consistency between AI, InD, Acrobat, and PS is a pleasure.

Full OpenType Support.

Character-Level Styles.

Transparency Works In CMYK Workflow.

Path Blend Spacing Affected By Path Shape.

I could go on, here, too.

JET

Both of you seems to know a lot about these programs that I don?t. And my point
is that if I buy a car, I would like to drive it home. Not assembling an
engine, adding steering wheel and gearbox first. Or learn a new way of driving,
like turning right to go left.

After soon a year trying to understand FHMX, it still takes me at least twice
the time to produce the same result as in FH7. Meaning my income would be cut
in half, if I couldn?t continue to work in FH7. But in reality, I can not get
any income from a program where my creativity is almost replaced by a brain
stroke...

I would rather retire than consider going back to Illustrator. Seriously.

Developers seems to think that it is the applications that is doing the job
for us, but I want the freedom of deciding myself what should happen on the
screen, the very second I do something. Freehand has allowed this up to version
7 or 8, but not anymore. Illustrator never did.

...my point is that if I buy a car, I would like to drive it home. Not
assembling an engine, adding steering wheel and gearbox first. Or learn a new
way of driving, like turning right to go left.

I quite agree that AI lacks features that should have been built-in for years
(even decades). But that is also true of FH. (Dimension tools, Fillet/Chamfer
individual points, more complete CAD imports,...).

> After soon a year trying to understand FHMX, it still takes me at least
twice the time to produce the same result as in FH7. Meaning my income would be
cut in half, if I couldn?t continue to work in FH7. But in reality, I can not
get any income from a program where my creativity is almost replaced by a brain
stroke...

Well, that really sounds like you just don't want to ever have to learn the
interface of a different program--or even the changes of a new version. (Your
productivity is cut *in half* if you use a version of FH more recent than 7?!)

If so, that's fine. But you are really limiting yourself with that attitude.
Have you ever tried to get your head around the drawing tools of Flash? That's
a radically different animal, too. Would you disallow yourself the whole world
of what you can accomplish with Flash just because its drawing interface is
different from FH 7's?

> I would rather retire than consider going back to Illustrator. Seriously.

Okay. Your choice. I don't think I'll ever want to retire. If there's a new
vector drawing tool worth looking at, I want to know how to use it.

> Developers seems to think that it is the applications that is doing the job
for us, but I want the freedom of deciding myself what should happen on the
screen, the very second I do something. Freehand has allowed this up to version
7 or 8, but not anymore. Illustrator never did.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you are talking about those features
which try to "think for you", like a Pen which auto-joins to unselected paths,
I agree. But being annoyed by certain behaviors in a drawing program is one
thing. Just flat out refusing to use it is another. Either way, it's your
choice.

JET

We are all repeating ourselves in various threads here, but what I am saying is
that I am not interested in what more I can do with more features, as FH7 has
more features than I will ever use.

Think of it this way; I want to draw the same way I did before personal
computers existed. Freehand has been a perfect tool to manage this. I wish no
more, just that Freehand is updated to work in the updated OS we are more or
less forced to use.

I know I am not the only one having this position. Applications developed
beyond what most users will need instead of being refined to work flawlessly on
new platforms is just annoying, like FHMX....

JETLT wrote:

> I could go on, here, too.

James, thanks so much for your response. You are the undisputed king of the
realm of vector application comparisons!

Undoubtedly, AI offers many useful features, and we may hope for a few of
our favorite FH features to trickle into AI over the years. However, I have
heard more than a few software engineers say that adding new features to a
mature application is always tricky.

There's a good post that every FH user should read, on the Adobe Illustrator
Mac forum, by Mordy Golding, a former AI product manager. (Registration
required.)

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.3bc37d4c/21

Mordy writes, "I like to describe a computer program as large as Illustrator
(approximately 5 million lines of code) as one huge game of Jenga. If you
fix a bug in one place, you never really know what effect that might have
somewhere else. And some features rely heavily on other features, so a small
change in one place can have an adverse effect in many other places."

Mordy goes on to say that not only must a change work within Illustrator,
but also be compatible with the rest of the CS3 suite applications. It may
be a very long time, if ever, before we see our most cherished FH features
make it into AI.

I'm curious to see if AI CS3's new Color Control feature can replace 'Find &
Replace Color within selection', which I rely on heavily in spot color work.

Much of my work these days involves vector drawing to scale. I have an
established, efficient workflow that uses FH's custom rulers. As long as FH
runs on my machines, I expect I'll continue using it.

Judy Arndt

Always a pleasure to read your posts Judy. . .

This thread illustrates that both AI and FH are HIGHLY COMPLEX. True fluency
can only be achieved after MANY MANY HOURS of experience. (I'm still refining
my Freehand skills after 15 years). This investment by seasoned professionals
should not be ignored. It is like persuading a writier to use a different
language with the logic "Russian has as many words as English". Is Adobe
telling the Freehand community to start over after all this time? The point is
not comparing features, entire businesses are built around Freehand workflows
and processes that cannot be simply translated.

> It is like persuading a writier to use a different language with the logic
"Russian has as many words as English".

Well, comrade, I'm not trying to pursuade anyone to do anything. But if you
intend to operate a business in Russia, you may be well advised to learn to
speak a little Russian.

English may be the language tenaciously clung to in the "English district" in
which you dwell. But outside of that district is the much larger Russian
speaking state. You can lobby the politbureau to declare English the official
second language if you want--but even in the unlikely event that you get your
way, eventually you're still going to want to coverse with the community at
large.

JET